Thirty Three Jones | Desktop Site
Last fall I received an e-mail from a rapper on Amalgam Digital named Kosha Dillz, promoting a new album he had just released called Freestyle vs. Written. The concept of the album was fairly unique, with half of the album consisting of prewritten lyrics by Kosha and the other half made up entirely of freestyled verses from C-Rayz Walz. Along with the promo he included a link to one of his videos, the rather creative Holiday, which I put up on the site without much further consideration. Shortly thereafter, I was surprised to see a handful of comments on the site, and several more in my inbox, that took issue with the video. The cause for consternation was not with the quality of the music - from a purely artistic point of view, Freestyle vs. Written is quite good - but rather with the fact that Kosha, who is Jewish and whose parents are from Israel, had included a song on the album entitled "Ariel Sharon" and was giving a portion of the proceeds to an Israeli charity.
Most of the e-mails relating to the video consisted of little more than the usual internet trollery that manifests itself any time the subject of Israel comes up, but a few readers raised some legitimate questions about Kosha's motivations for the album that I felt were worth pursuing. Due to delays on both my part and Kosha's, we both pushed back the interview several times, but given the recent conflict in the Gaza Strip and the attention Israel has received from various hip hop blogs as a result, most notably through the current feud between Byron Crawford and Peter Rosenberg, now seemed like a good time to get an alternative viewpoint on the situation in the Middle East (as well as offering up a chance for Kosha to promote his album, discuss his heritage, and share his thoughts on Jewish culture and its relationship with hip hop). Though I don't agree with everything that Kosha had to say in the interview, I found his responses to be rather thoughtful and he did raise some interesting points that I think everyone can benefit from reading. As for my own take on the matter, the only thing I'm sure of when it comes to the issue of Israel and Palestine is that the civilians on both sides seem to be paying an awfully high price for the political aspirations of their leaders. Read on:
[Actually, before we proceed to the interview, Kosha asked me to mention that he is performing at Southpaw in Brooklyn on February 11th. If you're in the area, go check it out!]
Of the few Jewish emcees that have found success in hip hop, they seem to fall into two general categories: those, like the Beastie Boys or MC Serch, who really only make mention of their ethnicity in passing, and those who use their ethnicity as a sort of ironic focal point of their act, such as 2 Live Jews. You don't seem to fall into either category so I'd be interested in hearing how much of a role your heritage plays in the music that you create.
KD: I guess that's for everyone else to decide. Maybe I'm sticking up for the people who were never gutsy enough to push it to that level? I'm not sure. I think my background was also different than the Beastie Boys. I'm a product of a family that completely died in the Holocaust and a family who fought in the 1948, 6 Day War, and Yom Kippur wars. My family is also from Israel up to my two older bros, so I am the first generation born here. I'm also a product of street activity, crime, college, and bar mitzvah classes, high school soccer and Division I NCAA wrestling [at Rutgers].
How did the album itself start out? Was it a situation where you hooked up with C-Rayz and then later on it became a benefit album, or did you go into it from the beginning with the idea that you'd be donating some of the proceeds from the album?
KD: Oh, yeah. I've known C Rayz for 9 years. We've been working together on all levels from touring to having pow wows at Indian restaurants. C Rayz has a great attachment to Jewish people, as they have always appreciated his art of freestyle. Receiving a lot of love from the community around the world made him more fond of the project, along with his lyrical challenge and cultural statement.
The idea of essentially handing over half of the album to someone who's going to freestyle all of their verses seems like it would be kind of risky, because you really have no idea what you're going to get from someone going off the top of the dome. C-Rayz pulls it off, but was there any concern before or during the recording process that it wouldn't come out right? Was he recording all of his verses in one take?
KD: He was there man, off the top of the dome. He had some key words written down to help him go off words but I don't think that took any more than [a few] minutes. If you know Walz in NYC, well, people heard of it, everyone sorta smirked because they knew that's something he would do sooner or later.
Another gamble on the album was handing over the production to a very young producer, Kentron Da Mastadon (though that too worked out, as the beats on here are dope). Can you give us a little bit of info on him? How'd you two hook up?
KD: We hooked up when we did a show with his lady in 2006 in Virginia. I think the show was very small and me and C Rayz went out with jackets and no shirts. We rocked a dope show and brought everyone on stage to wild out with us. We hooked up since then and I started pushing his beats since he was so far away. The kid sent me beats and then I started writing to them and then I went to Walz. I sort of knew we can hit up Walz. He already blessed me with mad fly beats before we made the album. I knew he was capable of the album. He also made it much easier to do the album.
When I first put up links to the Holiday video I received several emails from people who were, at best, skeptical of your intentions. One of the focal points of the criticism was the issue of your Zionism. Now I'm well aware of the fact that calling someone out as a "Zionist" is often a codeword that anti-semites use to refer to Jews, but in one interview that I read, you were described as a "self-proclaimed Zionist." Is that an accurate description of yourself and, if so, what do you define as "Zionism?"
KD: Zionism is the affirmation of a democratic state for the Jewish people which is Israel. Aliyah (returning) of people to the state of israel and Jerusalem, its central capital. Preserving identity through education of language of the Jewish people and protecting their rights all around the World. We are self determined in our own national home.
The second issue that people have with the album is the fact that some of the proceeds are going to the Netivot Israel Louna Terror Victim Fund. It doesn't seem to be the specific charity that people have a problem with, but more the idea of giving funds to an Israeli group rather than a Palestinian group. Without going off on too much of a tangent, I think it's safe to say that whenever the topic of Israel and Palestine does come up in hip hop, particularly with the recent and ongoing conflict in the Gaza Strip, the general consensus overwhelmingly falls in favor of the Palestinians...
KD: Why? Do we not have a right to protect ourselves? If I dropped bombs on your family's home in ______ city would you not be mad and angry?
In general terms, the conflict often is seen as a struggle between the comparatively wealthy and powerful state of Israel against the impoverished Palestinians. Taken in that context, I would say that the average hip hop listener identifies more readily with the Palestinians as the experiences of blacks in America - from the founding of this country to today - equate much closer to the situation of modern day Palestinians than they do to modern day Israelis.
KD: That's not true. We are talking about Blacks bombing people? No, because that's what's being equated by the statement [of saying that the black experience in America is closer to that of the Palestinians]. Don't believe that. I mean it can appear so if you don't read between the lines but watch how I answer everything here. Hip Hop has been tricked by the media. People screamed revolution and you think that it's almost protocol to be anti-Israel. My whole family came from ghetto. Warsaw ghetto (Poland). We can talk about not having food as well. We can talk about fighting. My parents came here with holes in their sneakers. If you knew that, would you think that's hip hop enough? We are the minority, you know? There's less than .25 percent of the world population. Who has made us into some overwhelming giant?
What is the case that you would make for the NILT Fund being a worthy charity for the average hip hop head to donate to?
KD: Proceeds of our album also go to the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding. This is with Russell Simmons and Rabbi Marc Schneier and bridges the gaps between blacks and jews. This project was with a black man and a Jew. A black man and a man with an Israeli passport and citizenship. We wanted to show the world that you too can be past all the drama and bull-crap and we can unite together through dope music. If you even knew me and Rayz on a personal level, we didn't get along in the majority of our relationship. This is a perfect testament to the reason of the project.
Would you say it's possible to donate to one charity, such as the NILT Fund, without it being a declaration of which side you're on? Or in other words, does donating to an Israeli charity in your opinion necessarily mean that you don't support the Palestinians and vice versa?
KD: I support people. I don't support terrorism. Unfortunately of course. One, people never donate to Israel charities. I am Israeli hence therefore...I would expect many Latino artists to do this for people of their country, and also Africans to Africa and so forth. Besides, no one donates to Israeli charities ever, so I had to do it. I considered doing it to others, but I didn't want to. I wanted to give it to this charity, because... [the final part of this sentence got cut off during transmission, unfortunately. Apologies for that.]
One final issue that people have with Freestyle vs. Written is the song "Ariel Sharon." Though there isn't anything overtly political in the lyrics, the title itself suggests that it's intended as something of a tribute to the man. As you might expect, this has left a few people unhappy given Sharon's past as the "Butcher of Beirut" and his role in the Sabra and Shatila massacre, along with his more recent position as Prime Minister [Wikipedia has further info]. What was your intent with that specific song? What are your thoughts on Ariel Sharon himself?
Kosha Dillz - Ariel Sharon
KD: Our intent of this specific song was to "beast" this song. Not kill it, but give it life! (shout to Nosson Zand on that quote) It would make people go crazy. It'd show how much people really know about him. People get mad just when you say his name. So if I say, "I love jews," that'd make SPIN magazine and "Ariel Sharon" would make you cry. For what? Lighten [up], people. We have to be able to speak on this subject as human beings. What happened in Gaza right now is not because of anything else than a missile striking Israel (100 in fact) during a cease fire. How can you have peace with people who say their goal, "HAMAS," is to wipe Israel off the map? Let me put it in terms for those who don't fully understand:
UN: HEY lets set up talks for peace! yay! Lets solve the middle east crisis.If people did this to you...we would be forced to attack and restructure their whole thing. Jews fight a state of mind of hate that has been built on a daily basis through media at childhood.
Israel: ok - lets see
Hamas: ok we want all the land.
UN: do it israel
Israel: we are smaller than NJ. You have the whole middle east. umm no.
Hamas: hello Israel our peace is now. We will only shoot rockets at you sometimes. Then we will kill you once and for all. We will have a cease fire for a few months, We need money from you for our school children who we teach in our schools (that you fund) that Israel doesn't exist. Then we will send some of our children strapped to bombs to kill your soldiers (who are also 18, 19). When you kill us and our kids we will make it look on CNN like you are killing innocent women and children, even though we use them as human shields.
Israel: oh ok. that sounds nice. Thank g-d for the UN, bringing us together. This is working out so great. Really unfortunate for the people that you put them at risk. I thought you wanted peace?? Why do you shoot rockets at us during a cease fire?
Though it doesn't come up all that often, when the Jewish community does get name dropped by mainstream rappers, it seems to get mentioned in one of two ways and I'm curious as to your thoughts on both of them. The more benign type is a sort of shoutout that "celebrates" the stereotypes people have of Jews. "Stack chips like Hebrews" (from All About the Benjamins), shoutouts to a rapper's Jewish lawyer/accountant/manager (as on How Many Mics), etc...
KD: Well. People shout us out as having lots of money. Jews work hard. They stick together. They make money. It's true. It's not because it falls from the sky. It's because we work hard. There are poor jews as well. There are way more black stereotypes and spanish stereotypes. I'm not offended. Stereotypes are public. It's all a matter of perspective I guess. Funny, I'm a Jewish rapper who definitely needed a Jewish lawyer (that's how much trouble I was in!). We (blacks and jews) are very alike. That's why we are donating to Ethnic Foundation for Understanding. We want blacks and Jews to be more comfortable together, because we are similar in many ways. Slavery, family, history.
A similar issue has come up with Busta Rhymes' recent song "Arab Money" both because of the phrase "Arab Money" and the nonsensical Arabic hook on the song; lines that are not blatantly racist but certainly enter into a gray area that can be offensive (and perhaps show hip hop's understanding, or lack thereof, of all things dealing with the Middle East). Do lyrics like that concern you ("concern", I suppose, in the sense that these kinds of stereotypes have historically been a precursor to antisemitism) or do you think they're even worth taking seriously?
KD: Yeah. It's actually a dope song because it's the first time people are talking about 9/11 in their raps and it's sort of a joy for people of Arabic descent. Hip hop doesn't understand the Middle East. They "hip hop" the Middle East in a way that is baffling. Soon people might be saying Arab money, and forget about Jewish lawyers...lol. Woah times are changing. I thought we were just siding with Palestine for poverty just earlier in the interview? No, Busta is referring to Iraqi oil interests. There are two Middle East conflicts going on. USA/Iraq/Afghanistan and Israel/Palestine.
Then there are the more overtly anti-Semitic displays - perhaps the most famous being the Professor Griff incident that led to him getting kicked out of Public Enemy. The most common example these days is the trend to refer to Jews as some sort of cabal that is controlling hip hop. It pops up most frequently with the use of the phrase "T.I.s" ("Tall Israelis", as in the executives at the major record labels) first coined by Mos Def and now used by various hip hop blogs...
KD: Honestly I wish major labels aren't controlling the game right now. They are referring to Lyor Cohen because he is tall. I don't know him. I honestly wish I had this game on mastermind control lock down. I do not. I will let you know when I grow 5 inches and take over the rap industry with my diamonds and millions of bank rolls.
Moving on to a more positive subject, any upcoming projects or collaborations we can look for? Any clubs/shows/performances where people can see you in the next couple of months?
KD: Sure. Beverly Dillz is a project I have coming out with Belief. It's sample free and is sort of my character meeting Hollywood. We are, as you say, bringing Israel and Jews into a positive light through fun, coolness and Beverly Dillz lifestyle! [And once again, Kosha will be performing at Brooklyn's Southpaw on February 11th.]
Finally, I asked Kosha for a list of sites that he'd like to mention:
Kosha Dillz' MySpace page, with information on tour dates coming up with Flex Mathews, Akream, Roebus OnE, Diwon, Y love, Yak Ballz, and various other "rapper friends."
freestylevswritten.com, the website for the album
Kosha's blog.
everyoneisjewish
Kosha Dillz on twitter
modular moods
Shemspeed
koshadillzworld.com, Kosha's website (coming soon)
Kosha also asked for a couple of video links to be included:
Matisyahu, C-Rayz Walz and Kosha Dillz - Childhood (Live in NYC)
Kosha Dillz and Matisyahu performing live at Williamsburg Music Hall
And here's a video of him performing one of his new songs not on the album, Munich 1972, about the Israeli athletes who were murdered at the Munich Olympics and the Mossad agents who eventually hunted down their killers (a story also recently depicted in the movie Munich):
Kosha Dillz - Munich 1972 (Live)
As I said at the top, if you put the politics aside (or if you happen to agree with Kosha's views), his album Freestyle Vs. Written is quite good and definitely worth picking up. Head over to the Freestyle Vs Written website to find links to buy the cd and to purchase it through iTunes. A portion of the proceeds from the album will be donated to the Netivot Israel Louna Terror Victim Fund and the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding.
And finally, if you want to check out even more interviews with Kosha Dillz, rock the dub recently sat down with him and he also did a video interview with hiphopdelight.com.
01/06/2009 08:31:01 PM posted by Fresh